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hil26

strange group on flickr

came across this from a link in another forum.

Very strange what people will take photos of - just hope cruelty wasn't used to get the images

http://www.flickr.com/photos/footom/sets/72157604118859257/
flapjack

bizarre. Reminds me of those old paintings of crying children.  The paintings were quite fashionable until it was said the the artist used to beat the children to make them cry. I remember people throwing the paintings in the bin because they said they were bad luck.
Evolution104

I recognized those images immediately. Jill Greenberg is a well respected professional photographer. She was interviewed by Focus magazine for their August 2008 issue.
http://www.focusmag.info/index2.htm

As for the cruelty question, which follows her work everywhere, she says:

Jill Greenberg wrote:
Either they cried by themselves because they didn't want to be photographed or we sometimes gave them a lollipop and then took it away. The mom usually did that. I didn't ever talk to the children or touch them or actually interface with them in any way. I just sort of sat there and waited for them to do something. Or in many cases, maybe 30% of the time, the kids wouldn't cry at all, so we just sort of gave up very quickly. And that was pretty much it.


Jill Greenberg wrote:
I wasn't sure how the series would be received in terms of would someone want to buy that picture for their wall? But you know people have all different reactions. Some people say, you know, I love them, they're so beautiful, I really want one. Someone said that to me yesterday. Then some people say, or you read, that they're awful or they're sexual, all these things that people read into them.


Jill Greenberg wrote:
I was taken aback by the level of controversy and it was upsetting at first, because I am a mother and I'm glad my kids are too young to have heard about it, but at some point they will hear about it when they're old enough. The controversy and the anger that was directed toward me was upsetting but enlightening. That's what the blogging culture has become: the bloggers and then the media sort of pumping up the controversy. Whether it's real or not, that's just what the media does. They need stuff to fill their air-time. They syndicate stories that go all over the world and it's just crazy.
flapjack

sorry I didnt mean that the Photographer was doing the same as the painter.  Its just the images reminded me of those old paintings.  The first image of the little girl screaming and crying is usually sent round with a caption 'I hate Mondays' and I find that very funny Smile
Evolution104

Oh no - I didn't mean to infer that you inferred anything Shocked  Laughing

I was just providing some interesting background information from the interview which I thought some might find of interest. The question of how she made the children cry is apparently the first thing on people's minds when they see these.
flapjack

Evolution104 wrote:
Oh no - I didn't mean to infer that you inferred anything Shocked  Laughing

I was just providing some interesting background information from the interview which I thought some might find of interest. The question of how she made the children cry is apparently the first thing on people's minds when they see these.


yes i can imagine people jumping to all sorts of conclusions when they saw the photos.  I think its a sign of the times when people read all sorts of things into images.  the reason I called it bizarre was I couldnt understand why anyone would want a large series of photos of children crying.

I'm busy this week writing an assignment which i think is going to be quite controversial.  no more miss nice flapjack im not playing safe anymore! Im either going to be given a first or be shot down in flames  Shocked
Evolution104

flapjack wrote:
I'm busy this week writing an assignment which i think is going to be quite controversial.  no more miss nice flapjack im not playing safe anymore! Im either going to be given a first or be shot down in flames  Shocked

Good luck! Be true to yourself and stand by your convictions. You'll do fine.
creators

I think part of my difficulty is that children in distress reach into such a primal biological imperative place that taking pictures of them in distress, and as the photographer said, she had no interaction with the children, feels callous.

But there is a far bigger issue involved here than seeing pictures of children in distress. We do not own our children, we are at best caretakers of their bodies, whilst they are unable to fend for themselves, but more importantly of their souls, their developing internal Self. These children could not give their informed permission for these shots to be taken, and until such time as they could, these shots are no more or less then a violation of the children. We all know the issues around taking pictures of people without their permission, it is difficult for all of us. These children had no voice and they have been exposed to this experience by people whose care for them should have prevented it. They have been exposed to this precisely because they could not refuse.

We talk of human rights, well that's bullshit unless we extend human rights to the most vulnerable members of society, to protect them until they are able to make informed decisions for themselves.

The photographer can play the innocent all she wants, having children of her own, as if being a mother qualified her to make the decision for these children to expose them in public in this way. She is glad her children are too young to have heard about the controversy, but will hear about it when they are old enough. She is glad her children are protected by their youth from what she has done. The children she has photographed do not have that protection, they are already exposed across the globe and nothing they can do in later life can take that back.
creators

Evolution104 wrote:
flapjack wrote:
I'm busy this week writing an assignment which i think is going to be quite controversial.  no more miss nice flapjack im not playing safe anymore! Im either going to be given a first or be shot down in flames  Shocked

Good luck! Be true to yourself and stand by your convictions. You'll do fine.


Way to go Flapjack! Being true to yourself is everything.  Very Happy
hil26

I have to admit I was rather taken aback when I saw these images, and Keith, totally agree with what you have said, it was very well put.

Best of luck Flapjack, you should do well

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